Welcome to Crush! Frag! Destroy’s! inaugural edition of InterReviews! — a supplementary podcast and article that will go up along with certain game reviews. Basically, how this will work is Mr. Scott Thompson begin_of_the_skype_highlighting     end_of_the_skype_highlighting and myself, Sage Knox, will be asking each other questions about the game (in this case, Super Mario Galaxy 2 for Wii). We’re going to talk about what we liked about the game, what we didn’t like particularly well, and what we’re looking forward to in the future. If you want to listen along with us or take this article on the go, you can find the mp3 here.

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Sage: We modeled this after a GQ-type celebrity interview where they talk to each other back and forth instead of a journalist asking a celebrity questions, except we thought we’d put a little twist on it and use video games. Scott wrote the review for Mario Galaxy 2, which you can find on the site here. I played the game pretty much the same time he did, so in cases like that where two editors are playing the game at the same time (so if Rob Thomas and Rob Rich of CFD play Monster Hunter Tri together they might do a supplementary podcast to go with their review). We’ll hopefully shorten the explanation down for future editions.

Scott: I just wanted to add that I’m currently dressed as a GQ model as well.

Sage: That makes it so much better.

Scott: Button-up shirt, buttons undone, chest out, you know, that kind of thing.

Sage: That carries well in an audio format, too.

Scott: I figure it adds a little something.

Sage: It certainly paints a mental image. So we’re going to get started. We’re going to bounce back-and-forth and ask each other questions. We have a basic outline we’re going to follow, things we’re going to touch on that we thought were interesting or important concerning the game. Wherever the conversation takes us, that’s where we’ll go. So, Scott…

Scott: Yes, Sage?

Sage: First question from me: On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the worst thing since Hitler, how bad was the Spring Mario level?

Scott: (Laughs). I’m going to go five. Right in the middle. I didn’t find it that bad, I know that was your major knock against the game was the one Spring Mario level. For people who don’t know, the Spring power up from the first Galaxy does return, but only for the one single level. It is kind of a pain, since you have to time the press of the A button to get an extra big jump – it doesn’t always work super well but if you mess with it enough you kind of get the hang of it. But, Sage will not ever forget that moment.

Sage: It’s easily one of the most frustrating moments I’ve had playing a video game, which is saying something, since I’ve played some real stinkers. I had to ditch the Spring power up and just did the crouch-back flip with a twirl at the end to get up and over the Chain Chomps, who roll down a narrow path and you’re supposed to time your jumps over them. Since the Wii’s remote isn’t exactly accurate and the game just doesn’t want to cooperate all the time, so I ditched that.

Scott: I will say I didn’t have nearly as much trouble with that you did. I’m glad you started with power ups, because that is something I want to talk about. I mentioned in my review, and I don’t see it talked about enough, that power ups in these 3D Mario games are completely different from power ups in traditional 2D Mario games, where you have the Fire Flower or the Raccoon Tail and they’re basically a perk for being good at the game – for not getting hit. It’s sort of an extra hit point. They were nice to have, but you could always beat a level without it. Especially in Mario Galaxy, but also in Mario 64 and Sunshine, they’re bountiful and if you lose a power up it reappears because they’re essential in completing the level and getting the star – except for the one level Sage broke and didn’t do with the Spring. Every other level with a power up you have to use it, whether it’s the Fire Flower to break a bunch of boxes in a certain time or the Boulder Power to knock through a bunch of barriers. You don’t really use them in “normal” levels and they’re only provided when the levels are built around them. The game plays more like a puzzle-adventure game where you’re given the resources you need in the beginning of the game and you have to figure out how to use them to complete the level.

Sage: Looking at that – let’s compare 2D to 3D Mario games (Mario 64-era on). When you say the power ups are supplementary to the levels in the old 2D games, once you come down to basics all the levels are pretty much the same: they have a sense of verticality, you’re almost always progressing from left to right. It’s pretty much standard across all of those games. There are some 2D-style levels in Mario Galaxy, but with the (inclusion of) power ups they basically become like a bad first-person shooter (Resistance 2), you come up right before a boss encounter the game gives you a giant rocket launcher you’ve never seen before. If you don’t pick it up you’re going to die. It’s an instance of the game giving you an essential tool to complete the level before you actually finish it – it’s a necessary component.

Scott: On that same note, how it works is also to change Mario’s move-set. When you pick up these power ups, you lose some of your standard abilities. When you pick up the Bee Suit, Mario no longer has those same jumping capabilities because he can now hover and fly. When you have the Boulder Suit, Mario can’t do his spin anymore because when you flick the remote you turn into a boulder and just go flying. It changes the rules a little bit for one level at a time. It allows the developers a lot of room to build a bunch of different scenarios with a lot of different capabilities for Mario.

Sage: I remember specifically in some of the Yoshi levels you could eat one of those Turbo Apples and run straight up a ramp. You could go as fast as possible and go up the face of a wall or something – all those crazy ramps in Mario’s level design. Do you like that those power ups basically cause more variety and toss a bunch more different variations of level designs within those Mario games? Or do you prefer the 2D Mario games where you could basically get through every level without getting every power up?

Scott: That’s tough. I guess I appreciate both. I really love New Super Mario Bros. Wii and it’s very much like that old-school 2D where you just get by on your skill. In Galaxy, skill is involved, but it’s much more about mastering what’s there and performing a task. I’m fans of both, but I wonder what a 3D Mario game would be like if it were built like a 2D game. You’d be plopped in a level and you’d have to reach a destination point. It was basically a playground at that point: you could fly or different things. You could explore and tackle the levels in the ways you wanted to. It wasn’t so much on-rails. Mario 64 had a little bit of that – with the flying hat and things like that. It encouraged exploration. We talked about this a little bit on the last podcast, but Galaxy does away with that. It’s much more on-rails: you complete a little task on a small planet and a star appears, then you shoot to another small planet to complete another task.

Sage: And there’s no going back, either.

Scott: Yeah, on most levels. There are a few levels where it is one contained world, one contained level where you can explore. When you play those levels it feels a bit off because you’re used to the Mario Galaxy format. I know you preferred the more straight-forward Mario experience.

Sage: I did, mostly because I tend to get turned around in those 3D platformer games. The old Jak and Daxter games, especially. That was also testament to the textures looking similar in  those games. Even in Jak and Daxter 1, specifically, it was a little more straight forward. There were some times where I said, “Now where am I going?” If you saved your game at a save point and came back to it you’d sometimes be unsure of the direction you’re going. In Galaxy 2 they’re always pushing you forward – there’s always a star right over there. All I have to do is twirl in it and I shoot up into space, then you’re at the next planet. They’re small, self-contained bites that get you through to the rest of the level. I do wish they’d lay off some of the boss battles, though. I get tired of expecting, “Alright, which of the four different bosses in the game am I going to fight now and how hard is it going to be this time? How many times am I going to see that stupid worm that’s nearly impossible to kill?” That dragon-worm, or whatever.

Scott: The boss battles do leave a little to be desired, I would say. I was much more a fan of those levels where you had to do tricky platforming and reach the top of a mountain or something like that, versus a boss that you had to hit its weak point three times. Those was ok, but I’d like to see those done away or become more inventive. That worm one was done well. It was hard, but I found it more interesting than the typical “hit the big red flashy spot three times.”

Sage: Maybe it was just me flailing around in my living room with my Wii Remote and getting overwhelmed with how many different angles from which I have to dodge him, how fast he’s coming, and waiting for the stupid throbbing bulb to come down so I could smack it.

Scott: It was definitely hard. In fact, there’s a challenge level or one of the Prankster Comet where it gets even harder. Maybe it’s got a time limit or it’s one of those where you could only get hit once. I don’t remember, but I remember it being very tough.

Sage: I didn’t play the game nearly as much you did, obviously. How many stars do you have now?

Scott: I think I stopped around the green stars. There are 120 stars in the game, including the Prankster Comets that go to the old levels and create a variation – they make it a little harder or give you a time limit. Something along those lines. Once you beat the game they unlock a special world, similar to Super Mario World after you beat the star world. Those levels got ridiculously hard. So you get those levels and that puts you at 120. Then there’s another 120 in green stars, where you go through each level where you have to find these green stars, usually through some tricky platforming. I stopped at the green stars. I got all the regular stars, but didn’t get all the green stars.

Sage: Scott, in the podcast you’ve mentioned that you really enjoyed the Throwback level. It seems to be a popular one among fans. It takes World 1-1 from Super Mario 64, I think?

Scott: It’s the second world – the first one is the Bob-omb one.

Sage: Oh ok – it’s been a while since I played that. I remember that level standing out in that game as one that was really fun to play. You could approach it from a lot of different angles. It had a lot of variety in it, I thought. My question would be: going back to those older levels, do you like to see those throwback nostalgic levels interspersed in between the more linear levels in a Galaxy game? A lot of times they switch to side-scrolling, reminiscent of different Mario levels from games like Super Mario Bros. 3. Would you rather see more of those? Or would you have them continue on with the more linear levels in Galaxy 2?

Scott: It makes me feel old to say that Mario 64 is nostalgic in that it’s a throwback. It really was, though. Just the design in that game was very different from Galaxy and playing that level stresses that. I loved that level, it was a lot of fun – there are some little jokes there when the pink Bob-ombs are joking that you look familiar, that it all seems deja-vu. I liked it a lot, I know I mentioned that on the last podcast. It was just one self-contained level. I kind of missed that sort of progression. In fact, I was kind of hoping there would be more Mario 64 levels later on, like in those secret levels, but there weren’t. I’d love to see more stuff like that – I love the Galaxy idea, but with (Nintendo) having done two, I feel like they have to move on from that. I doubt we’ll see another Mario game on the Wii and I don’t think we’ll see another 3D Mario until the next console iteration. I love to see something where it’s a little more contained and focuses a little more on exploration. Obviously I loved Galaxy 2, I love what they’ve done, but it’s fun going back to that and relying on exploration.

Sage: Speaking of the next Mario game, is there anything you felt there was lacking from Galaxy 2 that you’d like to see in Galaxy 3 on the Wii 2 or Wii HD? Besides HD graphics, of course.

Scott: Not very much. I found it a very enjoyable package. Coming straight away from the visuals and the audio, you can tell they put a lot of care and love into the game. With the variety of power ups and the variety of levels I was never bored. I never thought, “oh man, I’m doing this again?” Every level was different: every time you unlocked a new world it felt different. That kept you playing. It’s a game where you get a star and you want to stop, it’s 2 AM, but you think “maybe just one more star.” You never get bored of it since every star requires different skills from you and different input. It never feels old, not like the 2D side-scrolling Mario in that you run, jump, grab the mushroom and get to the end. It always feels fresh, so I don’t think there’s much I need to see in the third one outside of some innovation. I don’t know how much they can milk from what they’ve done so far in these two Galaxy games. I don’t know what they could come up with so that it would feel fresh. I really feel like this second game saw the developers completely unshackled. They used Galaxy as a testing ground to see what they could do, especially in terms of the removal of gravity and orbiting planets. They got to mess around and get their feet wet, but this one pushes all that to the extreme. I can’t imagine what they could do in a Galaxy 3. I would imagine that it would be a complete 3D Mario reboot. What about you? I think you were a little more critical of the game than I was. Was there anything you would have liked to have seen a little differently or anything that had you disappointed at all?

Sage: I think if they had streamlined the level-selection a little bit more that would have helped me the very beginning of the game, where I was struggling to find the motivation to keep playing the game. It had a slow start and it didn’t grab me as much as Galaxy did. Throwing me back to talking with the purple-people eaters and the star-people – I don’t want to talk to them. I don’t want them to tell me to shut off the game. The levels are four minutes long, I don’t want to come back and talk with these people. Just let me go to the next one right from where I was.

Scott: They made some big steps by completely removing the hub world. They pioneered the first real 3D game and created the hub world, which most 3D platformers have used since to mixed success. They realized that while that was excited at the time, like running around Peach’s castle because we’d never been able to run in all directions like that. Mario was so limber and you could do so much that it was great running around that castle. It was like free-play: no enemies, you could just run around and have fun. This is the fourth 3D Mario game now and we’re used to this, so we don’t need a world where we run around and just have fun because it just doesn’t feel new anymore. We’re used to what Mario can do with his cartwheel jumps and back flips, so we don’t need the huge hub world to explore. I like that they streamlined the level selection, but I do agree. I don’t need characters on this planet. It could feel a little bit more like a 2D Mario game where you beat a level and you’re thrown back onto the world map and you move to the next one.

Sage: That’s what I would have preferred. Besides that, fixing some of the power ups, specifically the Spring Mario. It’s got me at a loss, you know? I don’t know where else it could go. I’ve been playing Mass Effect 2 and been thinking, “What are (Bioware) going to do next? How is (Christopher Nolan) going to improve on The Dark Knight?” Things like that.

Scott: I’d like to see the next 3D Mario game to be like Epic Mickey, where it travels through Mario’s history with 2D and 3D levels. Stuff like Galaxy, Mario 64, the Mario Bros. That would be fun, where it’s all-inclusive and has a little bit of everything. It would make the nostalgia sensor in your brain just explode.

Sage: Super Mario Greatest Hits collection: remastered graphics, use the New Super Mario Bros engine for the 2D side-scrollers and the Galaxy engine for the Mario 64-style levels.

Scott: Oh man, I would totally buy that.

Sage: Nintendo, are you listening? (Laughs). I really have no idea how they could improve on it from there, though. This is one of the pinnacles of 3D platforming on any console – it’s a really, really solid game. In comparison to other Mario games, though they’ve had different members of development teams switching between Mario titles, I wanted to know where Galaxy 2 ranks in your personal favorites of the Mario series?

Scott: Oh wow, that’s tough. (Laughs). I definitely like it better than the original Galaxy and Sunshine, but I don’t know if anything can ever beat that first time of playing Mario 64. So many hours spent on that game…even just running around the castle just fucking around for the sake of it. Trying to break the game, trying to find Luigi who was supposed to be in the game, trying to ride Yoshi like it was rumored you could do. I spent so many hours having fun in that game I don’t know if anything could ever top that. Galaxy 2 tries and does some unique things, particularly in the level design, but I’d still say Mario 64 is a little bit above it for me. As far as 2D Mario games go, I don’t know if I could compare (Galaxy 2) to the 2D games. Those will always be special to me. I’d put it maybe just below Mario 64.

Sage: So you obviously like those games, huh?

Scott: Yes. (Laughs).

Sage: That was my last question.

Scott: (Laughs).

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That’s going to wrap it up for the first edition of InterReviews on Crush! Frag! Destroy! You can check out our flagship podcast, Team Deathchat, on iTunes. You can find Scott’s review of Super Mario Galaxy 2 here. Sage is on Twitter @giantsquirrel27. Scott is @oksoda.

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Originally posted on Crush! Frag! Destroy!