What if Final Fantasy Ditched Turn-Based Combat?

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Monday, August 17, 2009

Editor's note: After playing Dissidia: Final Fantasy, Matt ponders how a more action-based combat system would work in the turn-based Final Fantasy games (and vice versa). Dude, once you get old-man hands like some of us at Bitmob, you're going to appreciate that those games have turn-based combat. -Jason


I was playing through the Dissidia: Final Fantasy demo last night when I realized something: I'm never going to really enjoy turn-based combat.

To sort of poke at my own hang-up, I decided to examine what would happen if you replaced Final Fantasy's mainstay combat system with something akin to Dissidia. I'm not launching a crusade against turn-based combat, just creatively lamenting my inability to genuinely enjoy it (while coloring my own opinion as well). It's structured in tandem with the "gods" of Dissidia's universe, Chaos and Cosmos (i.e., what most would consider "Good" or "Bad" regarding these stances).

 

Chaos: Diamond in the Rough

I certainly recognize that I wouldn't enjoy Square Enix's more action-based FF games (Crisis Core, Dissidia, etc.) nearly as much if the market were flooded with them. It's even possible that if the situation were reversed, I'd be hypocritically making a stand for turn-based titles instead.

I do enjoy acknowledging how the turn-based and action-paced Final Fantasys stand out from one another. The perfect example is Crisis Core vs. Final Fantasy 7. I wasn't FF7's hugest fan, but I wasn't one of its detractors, either; I had lukewarm experience with the game. When Crisis Core surfaced last year, however, I found a new love for the realm of Midgar.

This leaves me with two questions. How hard would it be to use an action-paced system for the turn-based Final Fantasys (and vice versa). And if it's too difficult to do that, could Square Enix release an action-based accompaniment alongside whatever turn-based console entry that's in development (and vice versa).

Cosmos: Strategy Loss

Some would cry foul at Final Fantasy becoming too action-paced for its own good. I don't really see much sense there because that stance is usually based off the implication that all turn-based combat's accompanied by strategy or tactics. I've never gotten that from most of the Final Fantasy games, though certain tactical-RPGs nail that ground admirably, like Fire Emblem, Valkyria Chronicles, and even Final Fantasy: Tactics.

Most of the main entries in the FF franchise can't lose something they've never had in the first place. The marriage of action and tactics makes more sense in my eyes in a real-time battle system. The word "battle" has only transformed into a novel idea when turn-based combat's concerned. Who really expects to take turns hitting each other (no matter how much it's dolled up) when the word "battle" is uttered?

Chaos: Rancorous Pacing

It doesn't have to be Devil May Cry, but Dissidia shows that you can handle the pacing of real-time combat with a certain degree of tactile interaction. It's definitely not the first game to do so, and Square's proved with games like Bushido Blade that combat can become something far more than cheap highs with flashy moves. I'd even argue that Kingdom Hearts could have aspired to greater heights if it found more balance in its own interface.

Toggling action-paced and turn-based combat would no doubt be a hard feat to accomplish, but it's something that gamers would appreciate, as those who enjoy slower pacing would have an option that they like. An action-paced title would also play with the length as well, which could possibly eliminate the need for yet another 50-hour-plus Final Fantasy title.

Cosmos: Visual Visceral Combat

I know that I'm not the only one that's simply tired of pushing a button to watch an overly long battle animation or scene. It was fine the first 50 times, but it's lost its luster not only in Final Fantasy but other RPGs.

Pushing a button to accomplish an action is one of the most pleasurable and viscerally defining features of a video game. With action-paced combat, the need for craft and technique comes into play (depending on how well the game's designed, of course). But in traditional turn-based combat, it's only a mere factor in the best of them.

Punctuating strings of battles with plot movement can be tedious, but in an action-paced game, it's generally much more engaging on multiple levels. Due to this, the extreme weariness that accompanies the traditional "screen shatter" (what most FF games use as an animation to start their battle sequences) has an easy solution, and AP is one of them.

Need I mention that saving your replays in Dissidia is a by-product of how the battles are more engaging? Of course, we begin to move into an area that fighting games tend to have problems with, but I'd rather see that than stagnation.

Chaos: Party Pooper

How would an AP game deal with a party system, though? It would cause a lot of trouble, as the raised engagement level comes at a price -- the A.I. must rise to accompany it. Kingdom Hearts' setup is another good example, because I can't recall the number of times that Goofy or Donald went insane on me, casting spells and launching attacks that cripple rather than help.

The way party bots behave is a sort of admittance of this issue. The player could only aim their actions, but they wouldn't be able to control them past a certain extent. This roughly applies to how the system would carry over for an AP Final Fantasy game as well. It creates a significant dilemma for how the player controls their party members.

Cosmos: Stra-tact-egy

The difference between a weapon being different and feeling different would be one of the first notable things about an AP Final Fantasy game. What if that damn Buster Sword actually "feels" as heavy as it looks? With the amount of different variations of the main character's weapons present in most Final Fantasy games, there's a plenty of room for them all to react and feel different in battle. In turn-based Final Fantasy games, the stronger weapon is only stronger because the menu tells you it is.

Weapons, armor, movement -- a laundry list of factors could make combat feel like it's more than a simple set of sequences that the player must trudge through. Despite my feelings about Advent Children, Dissidia also gives the impression of the insane action found in that film, which is a good thing. Having the cake back up the frosting is mandatory in my eyes, so that isn't a requirement for me; it's just a perk

Despite the many variations and "changes" Final Fantasy's experienced, the series still means a great deal to the video game community. Even if you hate the series, there's more than enough room and technology on the playground to accompany and welcome more people into the fray.

My most obvious worry, however, is kicking off the children that are already on the playground. It's up to the chaperones (aka developers) to make sure the children (aka gamers) aren't throwing each other off the monkey bars.

 
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Comments (10)
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August 14, 2009
Nice post. It seems that action-based battle systems are the inevitable evolution of the genre, with several series already embracing it. I like turn-based systems as much as the next FF fan, but they don't hold my attention nearly as long as games like Crisis Core and The World Ends With You. Square may eventually come around, but it'll be a while yet.
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August 14, 2009
I know what you mean. I think I would enjoy being able to push a button to attack at will, but then be able to pause the game if I wanted to swtich weapons, or heal my team, or cast magic. On a side note, I'm assuming you enjoyed Dissidia, in which case I'm wondering if it's worth a purchase? I will download the demo myself and give it a try, just wondering what you thought.
Robsavillo
August 14, 2009
One title, [i]Final Fantasy XII[/i]. All the combat is in real-time. The game plays similarly to previous Square releases on PSOne, [i]Vagrant Story[/i] and [i]Parasite Eve[/i].
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August 14, 2009
@Sarah I've still not had a change to play through [i]TWEWY[/i], but it's on my list once I finally get another DS. You're right, Square will keep inching along to the goal of AP battle systems. That is assuming Final Fantasies will still be around by the time we're all in our forties. @J. Cosmo I've actually only played the demo myself. The full game doesn't come out until later this month if I'm not mistaken. From what I've played though, I'll certainly be picking it up. the only problems I've encountered apply more to the game as a fighter, which is a different argument entirely. @Rob You know, [i]FFXII[/i] is an odd duck to me because although it cast off TBC in lieu of real-time combat, it still clung to the general feel of a TBC setup. In reality, it was only a noticeable evolution to the battle system introduced in [i]Final Fantasy XI[/i]. It certainly isn't TBC, but it's nowhere near AP either. ~sLs~
Lance_darnell
August 14, 2009
[quote] the only problems I've encountered apply more to the game as a fighter,[/quote] I love your article, and after playing the demo last week I really agree with your point above. I am actually a fan of Advent Children, and playing Dissidia reminded me of the battles in that film. As a fighting game it is not the greatest, but as a game that does something cool for Final Fantasy fans, I liked it. My last comment is Paper Mario 2. This game had TBC, turn-based combat, but the developers added the great feature of pressing the button at the precise time to block or deal out more damage. This changed up the TBC enough for me that I was looking forward to battles...
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August 14, 2009
@Lance I need to try [i]PM2[/i] then (I've only played [i]SPM[/i] for Wii). I do think that's one of the coolest things about [i]Dissidia[/i] though. It actually emulated the same sense of action the [i]Advent Children[/i] movie stood out for in my eyes. ~sLs~
Lance_darnell
August 14, 2009
@Matt - I would definitely recommend Paper Mario 2, and I completely agree about the Dissidia/Advent Children comment. I think that's what square was going for.
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August 17, 2009
Well, as mentioned above FF12 went real time. Not quite as real time as the Tales of games, but definitely more active, and battles take place on the main field without any frickin' random encounters. It was great, like playing an MMO without the horror of encountering teen players. This was, of course, too different for FF7-tards, so they're going back to the traditional combat with the usual minor tweaks for FF13. What's sad is that Grandia combat isn't real time either, but it does a much better job of simulating it and providing an active feel than Final Fantasy ever has, as well as ditching random encounters long before FF ever got off its hidebound, lazy, ass. And it's far more strategic. Really, from what you've been saying here you need to play Tales of Vesperia. Real time 2d side-scrolling active beat-em-up, but with strategy a must. I wish I could recommend the Wii Tales game as an alternative, but the protagonist there is just so pathetic and whiny you'll just end up wanting to drown the little bastard; they brought in the wrong bit of Final Fantasy there.
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August 18, 2009
"This was, of course, too different for FF7-tards, so they're going back to the traditional combat with the usual minor tweaks for FF13." Its not that it was too different, it was that because that system sucked. FF12 is the only FF I have yet to beat because the system was so terrible. Square-Enix knows how to do turn based combat very well, so let them do it. Unless you spent about 4 hours setting up your gambits perfectly in FF12, you would have to highly micromanage each character for the boss battles and the harder battles in the end game. Which means its even slower and more tedious that turn based systems of older FFs. If FF ditched turn based systems forever, it would be a dark day Sidenote: Dissidia is making me buy a PSP.
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August 18, 2009
@Oldtaku I'll have to check ToV out. I have played a few of the Tales games, but not that one specifically. I'm more interested in Final Fantasy Versus XIII than XIII itself. Whenever I hear someone [b]really[/b] argue for TBC, all I hear is a less obtrusive version of the stance that the birds-eye view needed to stay in the MGS titles. @David Can I further question what you mean by XII's system sucking? @Lance Will do.

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