Awesome episode with an awesome cast of people. Plus I admit I marked out a little when Cliff mentioned Scott Pilgrim on bluray. IMO best Bluray ever made.

Yeah, this Mobcast was really hooking. Cliff was on fire and I was extremely pleased to hear him talk about color pallettes. It's always great to hear someone defend their work, no matter what it is. I'm suprised that Dan didn't squeeze in a little discussion on the new Unreal tech, though, considering how impressed he was by it.

Bonus answer to the last Question, SoulBlazer.

This is the best Mobcast I've heard in a while! 

First Mobcast I've listened to.  I might try to catch it more often.  I was very happy to hear Cliff's thoughts on Heavy Rain.  I really loved that scene because of how it takes the male player and makes him feel the vulnerability that a lot of women feel in our world where serial rapists exist.  I thought it was genius.

Haven't listened to this edition yet, but I assume Jim is talking about the scene in the club? I didn't get that impression-the sense of vulnerability that Cage and others describe. To me, it just seemed titilating, especially since *not* touching the controller causes Madison to strip down further. I seem to think Mr. Cage had other ideas in mind.

Jason, they were actually talking about the first scene you play as Madison, in her apartment.  I largely agree with you that the scene in the club was far less effective.  I can appreciate what they were trying to do, but I think it just didn't work very well in that particular scene.  I will say, though, that the fact that if you don't touch the controller, she strips, does fit the situation.  A man is holding a gun to her and making her strip, if she doesn't actively do something to change the situation, it WILL go badly.

Ah, I need to listen to it.
The scene in the apartment was definitely frightening, particularly since there seems to be a limitless number of intruders. This fits perfectly with Madison's own fears, and suggests the surreal, otherworldly domain of dreams.
Madison stripping in the club fits the situation, but the mechanics don't fit the emotions Cage is attempting to convey.  If you want the "Pride Saved" trophy, you *don't* want to let Madison strip. But unless you're abnormally confused, I can't see anyone *accidentally* not touching the controller. It's pretty hard to get that far unless you as the player (Madison) let it get that far. If you're a male heterosexual player, what you're feeling by allowing her to strip (particularly since it takes so long) is probably *not* a sense of vulnerability. That's all I'm saying...

You're absolutely right, Jason.  That scene, in a way, rewards a male player for what should be a failure.  I don't know how they could make it work better, though.  It is easier to criticize than it is to create.  (That comment is not directed toward you, just saying that I can see a flaw, but not how to fix it.  I thought it a catchy statement, too.)  Maybe they could have had that scenario end with Madison being removed as playable after being raped at gunpoint, but that would have opened a whole can of worms, including a potential PR nightmare.

The other thing I love about that nightmare scene in Madison's apartment is that the way it ends fits into what I see as a large theme of the game: that sometimes things turn out badly no matter what you do.  You don't always have the ability to save the world.

I actually thought the same thing about "bad things" happening should it go too far. They needn't show the rape--it could just fade to black, with bad deeds implied. Instead, she just gyrates indefinitely, or until you press a button. It does reward the male player. If "failure" is far better than "success", at least give out an alternate trophy for "sticking it out" through Madison's striptease.
Well, considering it's possible to get a "good" ending where the protagonists all survive, and the killer gets his comeuppance, I'm not sure I'd agree. It's certainly possible to "save the world" if you make the right choices. However, death is final in Heavy Rain. So that conveys the message that failure is real, with lasting consequences. With most games, failure is a roadblock, a game over screen, and a do-over. Near as I can recall, the apartment scene is the only one where you're pre-destined to fail. I can't remember if surviving longer even earns you anything.

Jason, I think you are forgetting "The Mall" chapter.  Nothing you do in that scene can make things end well.

A rape scene would definitely have to occur "off camera", otherwise the "PR nightmare" I mentioned would be terrible.  It would be bad enough just to allow the player to control conditions that allow a rape to occur.  I just don't think the medium is mature enough (or respected enough) to tackle something like that so graphically.

This discussion, along with Cliff's comments, are inspiring me to write one of my article ideas that's been sitting for months.  Maybe I will get that going instead of playing Dragon Age tonight.  I could probably write a whole article about the whole "press X to Jason" criticism, too.

Ah yes, I forgot about that.
With the "dickwolves" controversy, I'd think the gaming world is overly-sensitive to anything having to do with rape. As you said, the PR nightmare would be too much.

This is the first mobcast I've listened to, and I loved it. I'll check them out in the future. I loved the Elder Scrolls reference. I love ALL Elder Scrolls references.

Great show, despite a heavy focus on a genre I tend to not care about.

Also, Shane is so so wrong on Mario World vs Mario 3, but he's always such a fun person to hear argue the most inanely trivial things. :D

It was great to hear from Cliffy in a situation where he wasn't all about selling his product. Great Podcast this week