That sounds like a much more difficult topic than game writers seem prepared to cover. Poverty, indentured servitude, and class conflict (i.e. Dragon Age) are simplistic in comparison.

Nevertheless, I'd love to see it. :)

Interesting idea! It could provide for a fresh approach to storytelling, and it might even be worth not using magic at all.

"Religion" is a synonym for "morality" too often in real life and pretend ones.

Also: how else could you exchange money for good moral points? Going to temples would just be a big waste of time and money. Oh wait...

I'd like to see this. Atheist characters could have the ability of reason, which strips those of faith of their powers by convincing them of their gods' nonexistence!

I love this article, Cameron. There are numerous examples of magic systems that don't rely upon the divine in fantasy literature, so I'd sure like to see some more of these make their way to RPGs.

Unfortunately, attributing magic to divine entities is really (like you said) a lazy way to force acceptance of these abilities by the common people of these worlds. You see this sentiment echoed in television and film as well. Just look at something like "Highway to Heaven." Think how much of a different reception the show would have received if Michael Landon's character didn't get his powers from god, but were instead some sort of wizard. We'd see the same sort of outcry from the groups of people that protest Harry Potter. It's sad but, for a lot of people, the source of the power is more important than the actions of the individual who is wielding it.

On a slightly different tangent, this reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Arthur C. Clarke, who said: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." It's funny that we see weapons and gadgets that disintegrate people or shoot huge balls of fire, but we don't get the same reaction as we would if a fantasy wizard achieved exactly the same result.

The picture is still cracking me up. Christopher Hitchens is the best. 

Rob's comment made me think about how wonderful a Douglas Adams-themed RPG would be. One written in his style though unfortunately not by him. 

There should be an atheist RPG in which your party consists of the Four Horsemen depicted in the picture. But what would each of their powers be?

Oh man, that's a good question, Nick. I have to say, I'm stumped, but given RPG conventions, I think we can safely say Dawkins would have the "bio" spell from earlier Final Fantasy games.

In an atheist RPG, the Four Horsemen wouldn't exist.

Hitchens is fond of the brown bottle, and says many great writers did their best work when "blotto," so he can drink whiskey to temporary increase his Intelligence index.

Rob: The Four Horsemen is the name given to the collective group of Daniel Dennet, Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, and Christopher Hitchens. These men are the "big shots" of modern Atheism.

I don't think RPGs are really hiding or avoiding atheism.  In Final Fantasy X and Grandia 2 the main villains are the leaders and gods of the game's religion.  Destroying them implies that mankind should make their own path instead of following age-old belief systems, which is in a way an atheist message.   In fact, the main character in Grandia 2 pretty much states this at the end (spoiler):

We ... will depend on gods and miracles no longer. We will rely on none but ourselves. This I believe.

Also there already is an RPG that uses supernatural powers not derived from gods: Mass Effect's biotics.  The powers are derived from biological origins instead of religious ones, and apparently from the wiki human users are sometimes persecuted by religious groups (I haven't played RPGs in a while so I haven't played the game itself.) The makers of Mass Effect? Bioware. 

Chris: I wasn't calling Bioware out--actually, I mentioned them because I think they'd be the best ones to handle something like what I'm describing. But don't forget, there are people in Mass Effect who talk about The Maker (which makes me wonder if Mass Effect and Dragon Age are supposed to be in the same universe). But you're right, JRPGs have always been more willing to explore religious issues than Western RPGs.

Nick: I was trying to take the high road on the Hitchens/alcohol joke, so thanks for going there for me :)

Nick: Ah, my mistake. Read that too fast, heh. I've never heard anyone refer to those guys as the Four Horsemen.

Cameron: Sorry about that. I figured that writing the last sentence that way might give the wrong impression. As for The Maker like I said I haven't played Mass Effect, but as far as I know the plot is more about politics and humans in space than religion. In that case having a religion in the game is a natural part of creating a fully realized world.   

Well, I don't know if "The Four Horsemen" is their official title, but it is the name of the DVD in which they have a roundtable discussion.

http://richarddawkins.net/articles/2025

Man, I've been out of the religious debate for too long. I'll have to check that roundtable out when I get a chance.

Great article, Cameron. You raised some excellent points and managed to crack a few good jokes on the way! I'd like to make a few remarks though:





1. I thought BioWare tackled the notion of atheism pretty elegantly with the "Apostate" story arch. In Dragon Age, there was a dominant religion sect and there were NPCs who chose to defy its structure, tenets, and principles. If anything, I'd venture to claim that DA:O was one of the most progressive games when it came to anti-theism and atheism.

2. I don't think that modern RPGs simply explain away magical powers via divine creators. It's simply a matter of Deus ex Machina and a story's internal logic. It would be unnecessary and silly to explain that a lightning or fire bolt came out of a wizard's hand due to some esoteric scientific principle. Does anyone really want to know about that, or do would they rather just fry their enemies with fireballs?



3. I'm personally not concerned with the religious tendencies of video game characters. Is Sam Fisher a Presbyterian? Is Solid Snake a pragmatic agnostic? Is Master Chief anti-religion and anti-theism? Who knows -- who cares. But you raise an excellent point. It's important for video games to apply the same dichotomy which exists in the real world -- you know...the confrontation between religion and disbelief.

I think games in general would be better if blind faith was always met with skepticism, and cold utilitarianism was met with hopeful belief. It would be even more encouraging if video games could express the opposite of fideism (the belief that faith and reason are always at odds).

Who knows, by this time next year, we could be playing "Carl Sagan's Cosmos: The Game" or a title based on Pascal's Wager!

While I think that having characterized Gods, like in FFXIII it can make it very fantastical in its own right because it contrasts our own culture (which either denies the existance of Gods or make them impersonal). The concept of a pantheon of Gods which have personalities and imperfections is entirely different from what we see day to day, so it more easily takes us to another world. 

I am, however, interesting in seeing a game where the characters have no idea why they have these powers. It could be taken in several directions. It could be a quest to find the source (whatever it may be), or could simply be an afterthought to another story. I like your ideas.

Also:

Religious faith should take role as a motivation in games like Splinter Cell, Medal Gear Solid, and so forth. It wouldn't have to beat us over the head with it, but rather be an afterthought.  It would be an easy way to make character much more interesting and distinguished.

THE ANTI-CLERIC!!

whoa, loads of comments. As an atheist and a DM (dungeon master for you lvl 1 trolls) it would be quite cool to see an atheistic movement in Faerun, denouncing clerics and ridiculing the so called deities of Faerun (as there are so many). I might write a campaign about it, in fact.

I think Mass Effect handles Atheism pretty well, since it does question the existence of God by (*spoilers ahead*) revealing the ancient civilization-seeding race wasn't as powerful as was thought and the evil "Mecha-Cthulu" race stating that organic life is simply an accident that they allow to happen, it even pulls a double-analogy by having the heroes be willing to reject and fight these god-like beings. The presence of characters with a faith like Ashley, Thane, and even the super-logical Mordin seems to take the place Atheists would take in a fantasy setting because they show that, despite all the great discoveries made in a sci-fi galaxy, there is still the possibility of something spiritual because there is still plenty that is unknown.

Another point I would like to make is that RPGs should also cover the conflict between magic and technology more. One is an unknown force given to a select number of people that forces others to rely on them while the other is created from a person's own understanding of the world and can be harnessed by anyone. Such a conflict would make a good theme in an RPG and would stand well next to the spiritual debate.

There is an interesting dialog in Demons' Souls concerning this issue (I use the word "dialog" loosely, as there ain't much dialog in Demons' Souls to begin with). In the Demons' Souls world, there are two "sects." One is the magic-user's who are represented by certain NPCs; the other are the miracle users, represented by other NPCs.

Now, in the game, magic comes from the use of demons' souls, which originate ultimately from the main "evil" in the game, The Old One. Conversely, miracles come from a benevolent deity. But there is a disturbing insinuation made by many characters in the game: that the devout's powers actually stem from The Old One himself. Basically, their "god" IS The Old One; they are simply deluded. I'm not sure if it would amount to "athiesm," but it certainly is a cool twist on the typical "my powers come from G/god" explanation.

Lunar: Eternal Blue explored the role of deities and their changing role in cultures quite effectively, if I remember correctly (at least the PS1 remake did.) I wish I knew what happened to my copy of that game, or I'd dive into more detail.

Great ideas, Cameron, but I'd be cautious about where you share them - there may be game design students listening. *cough cough*

It seems that in most JRPG's they do a good job appeasing atheists. Sure, the gods technically exist in some form or another, but the game let's you kill them at the end -- most of the time.



I think it is a fair trade off. Makes me secretly giddy at least.