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Objectifying Both Sides
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Monday, August 31, 2009

Hey Bitmobbers! This is my first article I’m doing (and hopefully not the last!) and I am really excited to get this finally up. Hopefully you’ll enjoy it and comment on it!

An issue that has been brought up recently and has been going on in gaming culture for years is the objectification of women. Games love to throw in a top heavy beautiful female to shoot stuff and kick some ass. While some people love that, there are a growing number of people who are turned off by this.

Do I see this as a problem? Of course not, I like to follow the line “Whatever Floats your boat” as long as you aren’t doing damage to others (John Stuart Mill’s harm principle). My problem with this issue is how people are going about it.

Many people voice their displeasure while others feel so strongly about it that it affects their buying preferences. However many people I think fall short of the real issue. Women ARE objectified, but you would be naive to think it stops there. Many people can mention many female characters that are a negative image (Most females in fighting games, Lara Croft etc.) but have trouble naming characters that are a bit more authentic (Like Jade from beyond Good and Evil).

Let’s flip the table for a second. Many Male characters in video games are objectified to a certain extent as well. Marcus Fenix, and his gears, Master Chief, Mario, Chris Redfield and Ryu Hayabusa are all popular male characters in video games. Look at yourself and your other male friends for a second? Do any of them physically look like them? You might find one that resembles Mario a bit, but the others no way.

Ever see a group of guys on the street look like this? No you say? That is a surprise...

Would you or your friends singlehandedly walk into Kabul or Baghdad and start fighting back the insurgents (The real life equivalent of Marcus with three other guys going right into the locust stronghold to capture the Queen)? No? What about taking on an entire army and saving the galaxy from ancient weapons meant to wipe out a galactic parasite? No? What about going into a fortified castle alone to rescue some broad with almost no guaranteed reward in return? No? Can any guys you know throw a fully grown man into the air, catch them and throw them to the ground (The Izuna Drop)

I and many other men do not fit into most of the physical or emotional/personality characteristics of most male videogame characters. While most women aren’t double D breasted bombshells, most guys aren’t sculpted behemoths. Objectification happens on both sides of the gender divide. The reason why women are more noticeable is because of the audience. Sorry ladies, 70% of people who play games are guys and I’m not talking about those silly Facebook or web browser games either, REAL games.

Why are characters like Nathan Drake known for being so popular? It is because he is personable, likeable and authentic, same with Alex for Half-Life 2 and Jade. There are so few of these characters in video games today on both sides, not just females.

Once more women start playing video games; I think we’ll see more people complaining about male characters as well. I hope that for the future, when this issue comes up that it won’t be just about women but men as well. Unless women expect guys to be like Ryu Hayabusa, because then I’m screwed....

 
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Comments (19)
Default_picture
August 31, 2009
Can't seem to get my picture working :'(
John-wayne-rooster-cogburn
August 31, 2009
You have to click on the picture icon when you're editing your blog. Then you can paste the image url and adjust the size.

Default_picture
August 31, 2009
@Cosmo-Thanks! Not used to the MyBlog stuff.

Maybe now Lance will get off my back....;)
Lance_darnell
August 31, 2009
Well, well, well.... David has finally wrote a damn compelling post! :o

So my question is:

WHY HAVE YOU NOT BEEN DOING THIS FOR WEEKS!!!!!!;D

Seriously, awesome blog. You summed up all the points and sides well. You were mostly objective, and all geeky men everywhere just got a proverbial pat on the back!

Now please do a Meet the Mob!!! ;)

PS - For those who don't know - David has been a huge contributor to the discussions that occur in the comment sections of your blogs!
Default_picture
August 31, 2009
Great article David! I agree that males are objectified as well, but most people choose to ignore that for some reason.

My theory is that it has something to do with the increased focus on women's rights over the past century, which is mostly a good thing, but unfortunately, males who don't fit the bulky athletic stereotype were neglected in the process. This carries over to video games, as well as a variety of other arenas.
Redeye
September 01, 2009
An interesting point but I have a counter point for you. The problem with your argument is the motivation behind the objectification of each side is strictly male centric. Males make games that have male characters they want to be and female characters they want to screw. If you go around to female gamers very few of them would want to be a female game character who is as exploited, hookery, and stupid as the average girl character in games. Your average testosterone fueled adolescent boy gamer would LOVE to be a muscular badass killing machine, however. I and many male gamers find characters like Marcus and master chief to be stupid and not at all something I would aspire to but that doesn't change that those characters are potrayed positively and with a positive motivation for their potrayal. They are made for guys to want to drop into their shoes and kick arse. The female characters meanwhile are not designed to be aspirational in that sense because females aren't a target demographic.

Does that make any sense? *looks up at his post*
Robsavillo
September 01, 2009
I agree with Jeffrey's insight -- the difference between objectification of either gender is in its target. The fact that these images are at the same time each positive for boys and negative for girls is the issue. There are few positive characterizations of women in games for girls to emulate.

Furthermore, as we see with the magazine industry, the throwing up the objectification of men as a counterpoint to the objectification of women is not an adequate argument -- it just means that we have a larger body image problem to address than before.
Default_picture
September 01, 2009
@Lance-Thanks, yea I'll probably get around to writing one or two more articles with a Meet the Mob soon. Thanks for the comment!

@Jeffrey-I see your point but I believe that you counter your own point within the comment itself. While SOME would love to be some hulking badass, many guys out there know that isn't what most guys are/should be.

The objectification therefore whether seen as positive or negative is purely subjective.

Some guys might see the hulking badass as a good thing to live up and some girls might see being pretty as the only important thing in life. These people see the objectification as positive, while others like me and yourself see it as negative. However it is still objectification.

@Rob-I didn't mean for this article to condone objectifying women since guys are being objectified too. I wrote it because I felt that the issue of objectification was being pigeon-holed to only include woman. For the future, the issue to be looked at with a wider scope.
Robsavillo
September 01, 2009
David, I understand that was not your intent, but I don't think that focusing on male objectification is going to further reform on gender representation in video games.

I say this because of my comment regarding Jeffrey's observation. Your counterpoint does not hold, in my opinion, because the subjectivity of the gender representation is not necessarily the issue.

The issue is that the common male representation is generally positive in game terms -- being a hulking badass in context of the game is a positive image. Your example of Fenix in Gears of War proves this point because the game is centered around physical domination of your enemies. Whether or not you actually want to be a hulking badass is besides the point.

In contrast, Ivy from SoulCalibur IV having a large chest in no way enhances her fighting capabilities; the image is purely eye candy for boys. There is nothing inherently positive about her image.

That's the difference.
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September 01, 2009
@Rob-I don't know if I agree with that. While being a hulking badass with litle emotion wouldn't HURT in a context of a Gears game, it is not necessary.

You don't need to be a huge guy to pull a trigger, swing a sword or platform around obstacles. Most men within modern armed forces look nothing like Fenix and his crew but they still do the same thing. Blow shit up and enter firefights.

So while yes you are right, there is a difference between Ivy and Marcus Fenix. But it is far fetched to say that objectifying one is ok (males) because it is sort of useful within their respective worlds (Marcus in a warzone). Making Marcus a behemonth is not NECESSARY to fighting locust, a regular G.I. equipped with a lancer could do just as well.

Therefore since the objectification is not necessary it is still within the same realm as Ivy or other female objectification.
Lance_darnell
September 01, 2009
I have to chime in on this.

Although I really agree with David's point. This is very true:

Ivy from SoulCalibur IV having a large chest in no way enhances her fighting capabilities; the image is purely eye candy for boys


And the big Dudes are big because it makes them better fighters... makes sense!

There are a number of men in games that are big and bulked and don't need to be. But I think the difference that Rob writes of is true. Perhaps one day men's crotches in games will get bulkier, and then I can complain!
;D
John-wayne-rooster-cogburn
September 01, 2009
I forgot to actually comment on this article. I was going to say, I think that most guys could just care less, and women like to complain, and if they're not complaining they're not happy. And...oh crap, here comes my wife!
Robsavillo
September 01, 2009
One final comment -- I never claimed such depictions of male characters are "ok," merely that they are presented as positive within the context of the game.

But again, I digress. Focusing on male gender representation, while worthy of inquiry, is not going to bring reform in gender representation where it is direly needed -- that in the way women are portrayed in games.

It's a little like a white dude complaining about "reverse discrimination."
Lance_darnell
September 01, 2009
@ Cosmo - :D

@Rob - It is, and we need to stop focusing on discrimination, and more on helping people who really are concerned by this stuff. People in a good state of mind rarely even think about stuff like this, they have better things to do like play games.

But I don't care what anyone says - I want customizable crotch sizes in all games!

Um, as long as it is appropriate to the game...;D
Default_picture
September 05, 2009
I agree - I can see where many people are coming from when they claim women are being objectified; but if we come to accept that the images in video games are caricatures than maybe we can perceive the images as comical rather than real (for both the images of men and women)? women drawn in comic books also look like femme fatales and why is that? as you said, the audience is predominantly male. I don't think a large (no offence to those who are born big-boned) lara croft would look as graceful swinging through the air.
Anyway, beautiful women have always been used in narratives, lets go back to the fairy tales such as Snow White and Sleeping Beauty, Its embedded into our social psychology to create images far beyond reality.
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September 06, 2009
You're full of shit.

@David Men aren't objectified in games. Sure, they're not displayed in a realistic sense, but they're not objectified.

What you seem to be talking about is the idealization of the characters, which just happens to lead to the usual blonde with big tits when it comes to women in games.

That doesn't happen to our protagonists, while realistic they still have personalities and motives (most of the time). However, it does to the women, in that

@Quach Its not an issue of it being a beautiful woman. The issue is that oftentimes the only thing they have to offer to the world is their sexuality (AKA: TnA). Look at Alyx from halflife; she is very good looking, yet she is still one of the most "COMPELLING" (OH GOD THE FORBIDDEN WORD) characters in any video game ever made.

@Jeffrey I completely agree. Its all coming from some variety of masturbatory power fantasies.

@Rob THANK YOU. Jesus, I could not have been the only person thinking about this.

The main problem about these arguments is that women are rarely involved. Its always the white, straight, western man talking about these issues. You know what? I'm fucking sick of it. I'm sick of white guys talking about race in games, I'm sick of men talking about whether or not women are objectified, and I'm REALLY fucking sick of men (boys) trying to defend the use of fag as a pejorative (note: not actually referring to bitmob comments, just arguments in general).

(Really though, this sounds like sexist wank)
Default_picture
September 06, 2009
Well, you've certainly elicited discussion here, David!
Default_picture
October 24, 2009
@Lucas-The one thing I will never understand about these discussions are the number of people who say that white men cannot say anything about everything because they are white men.

A valid point is a valid point no matter what reproductive organ you have or colour of your skin. To reject something because of that seems a little backwards for 2009, no?

Anyways, I'm glad people enjoyed the article and commented.
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