Backlog Brigade: Eternal Darkness and Designing a Timeless Game

Alexemmy
Thursday, February 25, 2010

Editor's note: Alex and Matt Giguere use the first edition of the community-created series Backlog Brigade to discuss the GameCube classic Eternal Darkness. Along the way, they try to figure out what exactly makes a classic game classic.

If you're interested in participating in future Backlog Brigades, check out the notes at the bottom of the article. -Brett


Eternal DarknessWorking your way through your massive pile of shame can be a daunting task. But I've thought up an ingenious plan to get me through the slog: recruit fellow Bitmobbers to play along with me. They'll encourage and motivate me -- and best of all, we can talk about the games together after we play them.

Matt Giguere stepped up to the plate to take on the first game on my list with me: Eternal Darkness. Our resulting conversation turned into what I think is a worthwhile discussion about the challenges of designing a "timeless" game.


Alex: I'm not entirely sure how this conversation should go. Any ideas on what we could talk about related to Eternal Darkness? I was thinking about how it's definitely a product of its time and could be slightly impenetrable to new players.

Matt: When you say impenetrable, do you mean how time has treated Eternal Darkness compared to current games in the survival horror genre?

 

Alex: I mean that I felt like developer Silicon Knights barely explained the magic system at all. Perhaps they assumed people knew about the circle of power aspect because of marketing for the game, or because gamers would be able to talk it over with their friends.

Matt: Haha, I get what you're saying. I agree -- the magic system was fully explained to me. The first time I played it, casting magic mostly required trial and error, but it wasn't impossible.

Alex: Yeah, looking back now, the magic system seems obvious, but it was extremely obtuse and poorly explained when I played. I didn't even fully understand that I had to go to the menu and put the runes together to make the spells, or that I could make stronger spells with the 5-point circle of power. Daniel Feit had to explain that last point to me on Twitter. I feel like if I had been playing the game right after its 2002 launch, reading the previews and reviews, talking about it with friends, I would have figured out everything much more easily.

Matt: Indeed. The same thing goes for the combat. They never explain that you can dismember enemies until the end of the first level. Maybe Silicon Knights wanted players to take their time, but that seems a rather sloppy way of doing things. Then again, I think we're nitpicking what is overall a very good game.

Alex: If Chris Davidson were here, he would probably pipe in that he didn't know you could run until the last chapter.

That wasn't a problem for me because I don't own a PS3 or a 360, so a large amount of my gaming is done on the PS2. Holding down a shoulder button to run is still instinctive for me, and I can hardly fault Eternal Darkness for not having properly explained that. But the magic system and the melee combat represent a huge portion of the game. The problems with those are game breakers.

When I got to the Amazon girl, I died a ridiculous number of times because I was stuck with the blowgun. The game did explain the targeting system, but it didn't do much good. I feel like a simple system where you held a button to target, pushed up to target the head, left for the arm, etc., would have gone miles in helping me out there.

Matt: I do remember that the very first scene in the game puts you in a room with the simple zombies and only a shotgun as a weapon, but in the context of the scene being a nightmare, I think it's supposed to be confusing. In fact, the entire game is meant to be played at a slow pace, and I can see why Silicon Knights chose to construct the combat that way.

In any case, it wasn't too hard for me to pick up since I have experience with the early Resident Evil games.

Alex: Yeah, I haven't played many survival horror games besides Resident Evil 4. If I had, maybe I would've have been so frustrated. But really, I rolled with the punches until about Chapter 9. At that point, I just wanted the damn game to be over already. That drawn-out length seems like another way that game is trapped in the past. Nowadays people are happy with a 6 or 7 hour game.

The real question is: Are these things examples of poor game design, or are they just a reflection of the game's age?

 
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Comments (26)
26583_1404714564368_1427496717_31101969_389938_n
February 18, 2010
Good work, guys. I've been meaning to play Odin Sphere for a while, but never got around to it. I don't own any of the other ones (except maybe FF12? I'm not sure). I'm also sitting on Dark Cloud 2, Zack and Wiki, No More Heroes, and several others that aren't coming to mind right now. I'm kind of stuck in the back room at the moment, but we'll see what other people suggest.
Alexemmy
February 18, 2010
I've got Zack and Wiki, but after logging a good 7 hours into it, the game refuses to work anymore. I could load the game up, and start playing, but when I tried to go to a new level it cut out and said there was some error. That was forever ago, and I never went back to it. I even emailed Capcom and they said it was my Wii, but I still haven't had that happen to any other game. It was probably that the game corrupted my save somehow. It's been long enough that I'm not adverse to replaying it now.
Assassin_shot_edited_small_cropped
February 18, 2010
I always wanted to play Eternal Darkness, but never got around to it. Having read this I don't think I ever will, which is a shame, because it clearly has some interesting ideas. I stopped halfway through FF12 -- don't think I'll be getting back to it for a while. Odin Sphere, Ico, and Shadow of Memories are sitting (still sealed) on my shelf, waiting for me to buy a new PS2 to replace the almost dead one I have now. I just started playing Zack and Wiki, and have really enjoyed it so far. I recently counted the games on my backlog. There's a whopping 40 of them, and that's just counting games that I own. No idea how I'll get that number down.
Bitmob_photo
February 18, 2010
I hate myself so much for missing this conversation. I've been waiting weeks to talk about it too. Great job though guys, and thanks Alex for bringing up the run thing. If I had been there, my entire contribution would probably have consisted of me trying to stretch that into 4 paragraphs.
Pshades-s
February 18, 2010
Was there any explanation of the confusing elements in the instruction manual? I can neither confirm nor deny that I was enculcated through marketing because I simply do not recall, but I was definitely reading those booklets back in 2002. Beyond that, I still hope players out there consider this game for a look. It's playable on any Wii and with a recent trademark posting, there could be a re-release in the works. PLAY THIS GAME, IT'S TERRIFIC.
Alexemmy
February 18, 2010
@Richard - This conversation may seem very negative, but overall I still had a ton of fun with Eternal Darkness. I would recommend playing it through, and talking with these people on Twitter whenever you don't understand something (acronkyoung, feitclub, CasualAlcoholic, EvanKillham). We will all guide you through. And 40 games?! Damn! Sounds like I do need to get this backlog brigade thing off the ground. @Chris - We will have to still have a conversation more centered around Eternal Darkness itself. Perhaps Aaron and Travis will come out of the woodwork as well? Or Evan and Daniel will want to join in? I need to go back and watch all of the cutscenes to refresh my memory of the game. It's been a good month since I beat it.
Lance_darnell
February 18, 2010
Great conversation guys! I think the conclusion makes sense too. I was just hoping for more Ostrich talk...
Default_picture
February 18, 2010
I still need to (find and then) play Eternal Darkness. But for now, I hope to join the next Backlog. Mark of Kri looks good. From my own collection, I still need to play through Xenosaga, Dead Space, and Tales of Vesperia.
Default_picture
February 18, 2010
I absolutly loved Eternal Darkness when it came out, I really don't remember being too confused by the controls or casting spells. There seems to be a fair few classics I still need to get through, I never got very far in Killer 7, I found Psychonauts the other day in Blockbuster, and FFXII is still sitting there but I doubt I'll have the time till I get through my pile of games for the PS3 from Christmas, gaming time is precious so it may be a long while till I get around to some of those
Alexemmy
February 18, 2010
@Daniel - Another good point. And yes, I still very much encourage people to play Eternal Darkness. This discussion may have been more negative, but there was plenty of good in that game. @Lance - Perhaps I should have a lengthy Joust discussion with someone? @Chris W - I have all three Xenosagas and haven't played any of them. Still, a 60 hour game seems daunting right now. @Taro - I played through Psychonauts several years ago. Definitely play it. Maybe some others will want to play through with you? I'd be down for Killer 7 though.
Default_picture
February 18, 2010
Couple things here. First off, Alex, where's my credit for helping explain the magic system to you over Twitter? :'( Secondly... *goes over to media cabinet, gets Eternal Darkness instruction booklet* ...all of the control issues you had - not knowing there was a run button, targeting problems, spell creation - they're all explained perfectly well in the instructions. Did you not have the booklet handy while you were playing? Also, most FAQs will have explanations for how the game mechanics work - I go to GameFAQs all the time if I get stumped. Basically, my issue is that most of the negativity in this conversation stemmed from the fact that you didn't understand the game mechanics, which wouldn't have been a problem had you taken a little extra time to read the instructions (if you had them) or read an FAQ (easily found on the web). In that case, the discussion would have been more about in-game tutorials vs. external information, how much research you need to put into a game outside of it to really get the most out of it, how has that changed in the past 10 years, etc., etc. - which I think would have been more useful than what the first half of your article turned into, which was "I didn't understand how it worked, so I didn't like it as much." Personally, I thought Eternal Darkness was one of the best games of last generation - played through it four times in order to get the "real" ending and everything - and had the best atmosphere of a survival horror game without crossing over into the ridiculous like so many other games in the genre have done.
Alexemmy
February 18, 2010
@Brian - You misunderstand our minor gripes for hate, when they are simply discussion. This very thing was talked about on an episode of Mobcast. When gamers sit down and talk about a game, it tends to sound more negative then they may really end up feeling in the end. Granted, neither of us thought about looking in the instruction manual, but that would have just been another reason to cite for the game being stuck in the past. Not a fault of the game at all, it just makes it slightly more difficult for people to go back and experience it fresh. I know I happened to really enjoy the game, overall. I was more frustrated with how long it was, because it was hard to be able to find time to sit down and play it. But in the end, I'm very glad I did. It just felt like if I had been playing it when it came out, I would have had no problems with it. And sorry I didn't credit you for that, I forgot you did. Most of my time playing, I turned to Daniel or Evan for help, and since it was just that one time you helped me, and that was towards the beginning of the game, I had them in my mind. Sorry again.
Default_picture
February 18, 2010
Totally kidding about the lack of credit thing. Didn't you see my smiley??? And again, the only point I was trying to make is that I don't find criticisms of a game's mechanics valid or interesting to read when the reason for the criticisms is "I didn't think to read the instruction booklet," that's all. Just wanted to put that out there as something to consider for future editions of this column.
Pax_dsi_01
February 18, 2010
I understand your point Brian, but I also think it is important to consider how the developers implemented the in game tutorials. Take the melee and gun combat for example. Though I don't have the game manual on hand, I'm sure it explains how to target different parts of an enemy, but Silicon Knights felt it best to inform the player at the very end of the first chapter. Maybe it was done so the player wouldn't feel overloaded with info, which sometimes is a problem with instruction booklets. What if the player has no access to such references or has no one to explain it to them? What is their best option at that point? Maybe we are spoiled these days with games holding our hands as we play through the first hour. I know when I played through ED I went several hours without saving only to die and realize there was no auto save or chapter reload. I ended up having to go back three chapters and lost about four hours of playtime, but that is just how the cookie crumbles I guess. Even though we both slammed the game for these issues, I didn't intend to say it is a bad game or not worth a play through. Far from it, there are many great things that Eternal Darkness does right and it's one of the games I recommend to anyone who is a fan of the horror genre. This was just the direction our conversation went.
Default_picture
February 18, 2010
Personally, I feel that the fact that instruction booklets are always included with a new game's packaging means that they are part of what the developer feels that a player needs in order to gain a sufficient understanding of their game. If a player is unwilling to read the instruction booklet or does not have access to it for some reason (bought the game used, for example), I don't think that should be counted against the developer or as a fault of the game. I don't always read instruction booklets, myself - since they have to explain all the mechanics in the game, oftentimes they spoil features/characters that don't get revealed until a few hours in - but if I ever do get stuck, I go to the booklet first and then the internet second. In my opinion, if you don't like a game because you couldn't make any sense of it when you bought it used and don't have internet access, it's your own damned fault. :)
Assassin_shot_edited_small_cropped
February 18, 2010
okay, I'll keep Eternal Darkness on my list. It will be a while before I play it, though, because I'm trying to give priority to games I own (for obvious reasons). That 40 games figure isn't quite as bad as it seems -- it includes a number (say, 10-12) of no-story games like Pixeljunk Eden, Pixeljunk Racers, and Motorstorm: Pacific Drift that I've started but only played for a few hours. I count them as backlog games because I want to play them more at some stage. @Taro - I got Psychonauts from GoG a few weeks ago, and will be playing it soon. I feel so bad that it took me such a long time to get to it.
Alexemmy
February 20, 2010
I couldn't disagree with you more on this Brian. The game is the experience, and if I have to turn away from the game to understand the core mechanics, the game has failed. That is my opinion. I don't think Eternal Darkness failed overall, I just think it is a bit trapped in time, when developers didn't make sure things were explained in game in an engaging manner. The magic system is barely touched, and I don't believe that creating second-tier spells is even brought up in game. If I have to go read that out of the manual, or online, after I've been playing for many hours and get the 5-point circle of power, I think that's a fault of the game. Obviously we think differently on this point. Anyway, as far as another game people may want to play through, Killer 7 has been mentioned a few times in the comments I think. How many people still have that sitting in their pile of shame?
Default_picture
February 25, 2010

I disagree with you guys on the magic and combat, because I had no problems with them back when I played. I bought the game by the time it was $12 at Gamestop in late 2002 or early 2003, so I missed the hype (other than hearing it was good) and I had no friends with Gamecubes to talk about it. I learned how the magic and combat worked by playing the game, and I found it pretty intuitive. I remember not being really good until the third or fourth character, but that only added to the atmosphere for me.

I haven't replayed it since 2004, so maybe it hasn't aged well, but going at it from a similar background as you guys, it sounds like I had a very different experience.

Default_picture
February 25, 2010

Alex, I definitely want to be involved in the next Backlog Brigade! Odin Sphere, Mark of Kri, MadWorld, and Killer 7 are all on my list of games I need to play. Can you provide me contact information, or some way to put my name on a list? I definitely want to be involved in the next one! My email is andy@babybates.com.

Alexemmy
February 25, 2010

I'm just gauging interest right now. I'll throw up a preliminary post with more guidelines for what contributing to a future Backlog Brigade might mean, should another move ahead. Since the Game Club is moving into a similar backlog games type of territory under Jasmine's command, I'd like to try to differentiate this column a little more. I think the conversational element does that the most, and I'd like to expand on that. Still plotting ideas on how right now.

So until then, everyone feel free to discuss their interest in participating in future editions, and which games they'd like to play. Email me at bloodstains85@gmail.com, or add me on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/acronkyoung if you have anymore questions.

A lot of people have mentioned that Killer 7 is on their pile of shame. How many people would be into playing along for that game?

Twitpic
February 25, 2010

I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation and its diversion from Eternal Darkness to other games; well done, and I can't wait to read more!

I'd love to join in, but I don't have any way of playing the games you mentioned.

Default_picture
February 25, 2010

I'd be interested in removing Killer 7 from my pile of shame. Also any game from the list, except Mad World as I don't own a Wii yet, I can play no problem.

Me_and_luke
February 26, 2010

This is a cool idea, Alex, and I'd love to join in for the next game.  I don't own Killer 7, and have never really considered playing it, but perhaps it would be a nice entry for me into Suda51's work.  I'd pick it up if we decided on that one.

Otherwise, my small backlog (of games that I own) consists of Zack and Wiki, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, and Kameo: Elements of Power, amongst a couple of Final Fantasy games, but those don't really seem like appropriate material.  I've been thinking, however, about also getting Beyond Good and Evil, Viewtiful Joe, any of the Metal Gear Solid games, any Ratchet and Clank game... The list can go on.  If it's a current- or last-generation game that I have some interest in, I'll likely buy it for this community activity.

I added you on Twitter, Alex.  My name is BCGlynn17.

Alexemmy
February 26, 2010

What is on your pile of shame Cosmo? Several people have mentioned Zack & Wiki as well, which I started to play forever ago and at about 7 hours in my game save was corrupted. At least that's what I assume and hope it was, but I never tried to start a new game to see if that'd work fine. After 7 hours, I didn't feel like starting over. But it's been over a year, so I could easily play through that again. I think more people have said Killer 7 though. Maybe I should bring it down to a vote between those two? Unless someone has other suggestions.

Alexemmy
February 26, 2010

Oh! And I have both of the PS1 Oddworld games to get through. Anyone else need to do those?

Default_picture
February 27, 2010

FF12 would take forever, but it'd make for an interesting article. Mad World also might be a good pick since it's so short and inexpensive.

Anyway, I enjoyed learning more about Eternal Darkness. I hate when certain controls and spells aren't explained, but it sounds like the sanity effects still work pretty well. I remember being impressed by it back in the day even though I didn't get very far before I had to return it.

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