Grinding: The RPG Convention No One Wants to Copy

Pshades-s
Wednesday, November 04, 2009

Editor's note: Daniel takes a look at how the best aspects of role-playing games have made the jump over to other genres, but the mindless grind remains an RPG-only phenomenon. Now if you'll excuse me, Borderlands is calling my name. -Demian


Watching Sessler’s Soapbox this past week, I was forced to confront my own feelings about role-playing games (RPGs for you brevity fans). I used to love them, playing both the pen & paper and electronic varieties throughout my childhood. Then something changed and I turned on the genre, but Sessler’s comments have given me a lot to think about. Do I hate RPGs, or do I simply hate RPGs that waste my time?

I played RPGs for years and I adored them all, but sometime around the turn of the millennium I simply threw up my hands and declared myself done with the genre. This coincided with a period of frustration I had with video games as a whole (something I seriously need to write about one of these days). I have completely reversed course on that and embraced video games once again, but I have never returned to what used to be the staple of my gaming appetite.

Nevertheless, RPG elements have somehow permeated my favorite games over the course of the past year; it's a growing trend, and one that I can get behind.

 

Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia is the most obvious example, and the closest thing to a traditional RPG I played during that time. Like Symphony of the Night, it smoothly mixes leveling up with 2D action, but adds a world map and a town full of villagers to interact with. If anything, it's more RPG-like than the previous SotN derivatives on the Nintendo DS, yet I had no complaints.

Resistance 2's co-op mode also owes a debt to RPGs. While the setting and first-person shooter controls are radically different, every bullet in your clip is a potential experience point-earner. In a rather brilliant move, the game uses dynamic visual cues to combine XP and shooting -- numbers pop up with each successful hit or kill. Looking at movies of Borderlands (the inspiration for Sessler's video, above), I see that game uses a similar system. To an RPG veteran such as myself, flying numbers are the new gore.

Even when you strip away signature tropes such as levels, RPG fingerprints are all over recent blockbusters. In Batman: Arkham Asylum, beating up mental patients and finding Riddler trophies contributes to an (optional) upgrade system that gradually makes Batman stronger, because who wants to play a level 1 Batman anyway? Likewise, Resident Evil 5 players buy new weapons and enhancements via gold and loot, and can replay lucrative stages to stock up on cash. 2007 hit BioShock, a shooter devoid of any XP or player stats, offered periodic upgrades through tonics, the research camera, and Power to the People stations.

The point is, I can't keep complaining about RPGs as a genre when their distinguishing characteristics are infused into nearly everything about games that I enjoy. Games have trained me to seek small, incremental rewards and draw satisfaction from purely arbitrary numerical checkpoints. RPGs are simply the most transparent examples of the practice. The longer you play a game, the higher the numbers go and the better you feel. In the original Super Mario Bros., neither Mario nor the Mushroom Kingdom changed much as you advanced through the game, but the World numbers alone signified your progress. The Warp Zone was so exciting because 4>3>2.

That brings us back to the unpleasantness of “grinding,” the topic that Adam Sessler specifically addressed in his Soapbox video. He defended it as a desirable escape from everyday life, a simple way to relieve stress by simulating progress and accomplishments. I don’t disagree with him on these points, but I think he is talking about video games as a whole rather than just RPGs.

All games offer the feedback and rewards that he describes, and like it or not, every game has enough repetition so that players go through the same set of actions over and over again. When it comes to grinding, however, a few key factors come to mind: tapping a single button to rush things along, moving my character in circles, and an overall sense that I’m waiting for something rather than doing something. Grinding is not an escape for me, it's work, and one of the reasons I don’t enjoy RPGs anymore.

RPGs still differ from most other games in that simply playing makes your character improve. XP as a tangible resource that can be stockpiled and hoarded incentivizes players to grind in order to proceed. It’s not like a skilled Final Fantasy 7 player can beat Emerald Weapon with bold strategy alone. If your characters are not experienced enough or you lack certain materials (which can only be acquired through hours of gameplay), the battle cannot be won.

By contrast, a game like Super Mario Bros. or Batman can be completed without any upgrades at all. Mario can warp to the final castle in less than five minutes, and whether he’s big or small he's capable of defeating Bowser. Aside from some necessary equipment found along the way, nothing's stopping Batman as he exists at the start of the game from fighting the Joker at the end. The difference is, the player has to learn how to win the fight by battling lesser henchman.

I’m not going to condemn RPGs for making it easier for players to strengthen their characters, I’m just fed up with the ones that don’t offer a fun way to do it. The hours I spent grinding for the Emerald Weapon encounter involved walking back and forth, fighting random battles just so I could build up stats and duplicate certain rare items. I didn’t learn anything, I was just pressing the X button as fast as I could. It was like playing a slot machine, only instead of a random jackpot you won one penny at a time.

That’s the essence of grinding to me: spinning my wheels, wasting my time, learning nothing while accomplishing almost nothing. Lots of games let me stock up on resources through repetition, but the good ones hone my skills as I go, keeping me entertained. For example, I didn’t need to rid Arkham of all those killer plants, but I enjoyed the challenge of sneaking up on them and bursting them without getting hit. I didn’t consider it grinding, I just felt like I was playing the game my own way.

Adam Sessler defended grinding while discussing Borderlands, which seems like an odd choice. I haven’t played the game yet, but it doesn’t strike me as the grinding type. Even if I must build up experience points by killing weaker foes, that’s still a task that requires quick thinking and aiming skills. The game could turn out to be poorly paced, but so long as combat remains a mental exercise instead of rapid button presses I don’t see it becoming a chore. At the very least, the promise of killing wild boars with a friend by my side should erase any tedium that might set in.

I used to think I hated RPGs, but recent gaming trends have shown me that I couldn’t have been further from the truth. As experience points and periodic upgrades become standard across all genres of gaming, it seems like everybody loves most RPG conventions. Grinding, on the other hand, remains on my list of things to avoid.

[UPDATE: Please check out this alternate opinion on what makes "grinding" a grind]

Daniel Feit was born in New York but now lives in Japan. Follow him on Twitter @feitclub or visit his blog, feitclub.com

 
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Comments (19)
Default_picture
November 03, 2009
The grind in Borderlands isn't as simple as "shooting rats and dogs in order to take on a gang of thugs" because of the loot mechanic. For instance, I just finished my third grind of the first ¼ of the dungeon I need to beat to progress this morning. I’ll go into it, kill a bunch of guys, get some XP and cash and pick up a few chests full of hot, sweet loot. In doing so, I’ve pulled a better combat rifle and shotgun than I had before, plus a new class mod to upgrade my skills. The grind isn’t boring or tedious in any way because of the randomly generated loot. You might kill the same psycho midget five times in a row, sure, but the fifth time, he drops a purple sniper rifle and it all becomes worthwhile. Once I hit the next level I’ll move through the rest of the dungeon. I could easily beat it now if I wanted to, sure. You never need to grind to reach a level to beat a boss in Borderlands, from my experience so far. You grind for the loot.
Redeye
November 03, 2009
Borderlands has a grind but it's a well paced grind. The quests are setup so theirs usually something you can do that's around your level quest wise and doing it usually gets you enough levels and loot to do the next thing when you are done. So if you do every single quest you never really feel like you are grinding as much as finishing the game. Old style RPGs had a bit too much unassisted and pointless leveling up but these days things have gotten better for the genre. Many RPGs these days have selectable difficulty levels for if you don't want to be bothered with getting your ass kicked and many have more consistent and well paced side quests and main quests to keep you from boring yourself to tears. I still think that on the whole Japanese RPGs tend to be too punishing with their level requirements and 'optional' but really manditory side quests and I think that being more user friendly is the direction that genre needs to go. I think in the long run that RPGs are going to be in a good place in the future though once everyone irons out what actions are the most fun to repeat and what the best rewards are for the player.
Default_picture
November 03, 2009
Here's how I see it- I hate Madden. I don't like managing a roster and a play book- I just like to play and watch football. Even though I hate it, Madden remains among the most popular and highest selling video game franchises ever. Conversely, I love grind-fest games. Getting all of my team up to lvl 99 on the Sunken Gelnika to fight Emerald is great fun for me and, based on the sales of the most recent Square Enix RPG titles, I'm not alone. What I'm getting at is that grinding in RPGs is a popular, beloved mechanic. Just like roster building in Madden, it isn't for everyone.
Brett_new_profile
November 03, 2009
Interesting thoughts, Daniel, and I'm partially with you. I find it really difficult to grind in an RPG on a console, but I've got no problem popping a JRPG into my DS. The portability means I can multitask while playing. For example, I'm playing Nostalgia at the moment, and I've spent the past few Saturdays leveling up my dudes while watching college football. Grinding is the perfect way to pass the time during commercials.
Redeye
November 03, 2009
Borderlands has become my podcast game personally. I dump time into it when i'm wanting to listen to something and am bored by having to focus just on sound. It helps that the game's story is so thin and useless that I ignore it entirely except for putting on subtitles so I can read to get the gist of it. So grindy stuff is very good for me with just zoning out and enjoying gaming while doing something else. If a game has a good story or atmosphere I'll find myself pausing podcasts to take it in and then forgetting to turn them back on though. Which is both a good and a bad thing ^.^.
Pshades-s
November 04, 2009
To those defending Borderlands: Do you believe that a word like "grinding" is relevant when you're engaged in complex action gameplay? It doesn't feel right to me in that context. Travis: I used to love those games too, but something changed. Now I find traditional RPGs unplayable but many of the RPG elements still appeal to me, which is why Borderlands strikes me as something worth playing. I suspect it's "grind-proof."
Default_picture
November 04, 2009
@Daniel- [quote]Do you believe that a word like "grinding" is relevant when you're engaged in complex action gameplay?[/quote] Yes, yes I do. I have probably spent five hours "grinding" a single level over and over in Demon's Souls. Leveling up is key to surviving the rest of the game( like any RPG), but no one can argue that the combat is not very complex. This is a great article, really got me thinking about all the different kinds of RPG's out there.
Default_picture
November 04, 2009
Daniel, even as an RPG fan, I couldn't agree more with your perspective on grinding. I've never liked grinding -- I found it tedious in the 16-bit era, and I don't like it anymore now. That's the exact reason why a lot of games that focus solely on the collection of loot don't attract me, and it's why I can't play certain RPGs. The only way I can play a grind heavy RPG is if it has one or more of the following: likable characters, an interesting storyline, excellent artwork, and a great soundtrack. Still, these things don't completely negate the feeling of grinding being a chore, so I prefer that developers create an interesting battle system and avoid artificially lengthening the game by the addition of thousands of extra battles. One of the few games where I actually felt compelled to grind was Final Fantasy Tactics (which is actually a Strategy-RPG), and that's because I really enjoyed the battle system and all the customization its job system provided. Anyway, I really liked this piece. Well done.
Jason_wilson
November 04, 2009
Grinding works when the combat's interesting, the loot is rewarding, and you feel like the combat actually fits the plot. Final Fantasy Tactics is a good example of a game where grinding works. Vahalla Knights is a series that shows how boring grinding can be.
Default_picture
November 05, 2009
@Jason Totally second on Final Fantasy Tactics.
Pshades-s
November 05, 2009
First off, big thanks to the responsible party (parties?) for the bump onto the front page and giving my post an editorial face-lift. The new title is much better than the old one (may it never be repeated). I never played Final Fantasy Tactics because the FF name scared me away. As much as I loved VII, it was the primary reason I felt burned out by the genre. I will investigate, is it a portable game? As Brett noted, it's a hell of a lot easier to grind while on the go when you've got time to burn.
Default_picture
November 05, 2009
@Daniel- You have a few options when it comes to FFT. You can purchase the newly translated PSP version for $20 or less, or you can download the original off PSN and play it on your PSP or PS3 (that version is $10). Personally, I'd recommend the original despite there being more grammatical/translation errors.
Default_picture
November 05, 2009
I've gotten to Level 20 in Borderlands and so far I don't feel like I've done anything close to grinding. I've quested, but that usually leads to enough XP and 'phat lewtz' to keep me going. I define grinding as what I did in WoW when I was just shy of a ding. Or in FFVII, when I wasted hours killing those damn turtles on the Wutai shores.
Waahhninja
November 05, 2009
I've never had a problem with grinding (spending over 200 hours in the original FFT, 80 of which was just the first two stages, I enjoyed every minute) as long as I feel that there's a tangible reward in doing so. Just running in circles to trigger enemies for a small bump in XP is boring. Using a battle system like Xenogears' allowed me to never consider the combat boring. Hence, over 900 hours in that game. Borderlands has optional grinding, if you can consider it grinding at all. Doing every available quest and running through the game normally will have you beating it around levels 34-37. Any repetitious back-and-forthing is simply for trying to get the game to spawn better and better loot. There is one point where I did a classic grind, but not with enemies. As the game essentially considers weapons found to be the replacement of levels and skills in other RPG's you can grind weapon chests. New Haven has 4 you can get within 1 minute from a fresh reload and another 4 within 2 minutes of walking. Opening these chests, selling vendortrash, save-exiting and reloading is the closest to grinding as Borderlands gets. And I did that one loop for probably 5 hours.
Default_picture
November 07, 2009
@Daniel and Borderlands players: I realize this is late, but I'll put it down anyway: yes, I've grinded in Borderlands, but 1) it wasn't to level up, 2) I chose to do it (at first, but then it kinda turned addicting). See, Borderlands resets loot boxes and enemies, including bosses and "epic" monsters when you save, exit, and reload. So whenever I found a nice spot where I could hit up boxes and enemies appropriate to my level, I'd occasionally spend an hour or two just going over that area and looting, killing, reloading just to see what I can find, and I've found some interesting loot. After a while I know my attention deadens, so I have to watch for that, but it's completely optional, the game is definitely playable without them. Anyway, as Daniel says, anything with an RPG-leveling mechanic ought to make the leveling process engaging, and simple menu-driven monster-killing, when "required", tends to feel more like a cheap copout on the designer's part to avoid making more content instead. Besides, at least in America, I think the real RPG "grind" reminds people too much of rote repetitive assembly-line kind of busywork that they either do for a job already or otherwise goes against what society tends to tell us what we want to do to achieve personal happiness.
Pshades-s
November 08, 2009
Never too late to share your thoughts, Jonathan. Thanks! I'm starting to understand why Borderlands has a "grinding" reputation now, but I'm still looking forward to it. Glad to hear so many people are enjoying it.
Default_picture
November 10, 2009
@daniel: Maybe I just don't get what other people mean by grinding, hehe. Certainly there's no bad feeling to whatever borderlands has you do to experience the game to the level cap or to all missions and map areas, although you might find yourself obsessing over trying to find a weapon stronger still than your last, but I don't always consider grinding a bad thing, especially if it's not mandatory, and it isn't for borderlands.
Img_0183
November 10, 2009
I haven't read the other post on grinding yet, but I do want to make one little comment. I don't mind grinding as long as I feel like I'm getting somewhere. For example, grinding to go up levels, or to get the cash to buy the best weapons and armor, or to max out my healing items, is fine. I have a quantifiable way of seeing that I'm progressing. However, if I have no way to tell that I'm progressing, or if I can tell that progress is going to take a while, then it's not as fun. For example, with Need For Speed Carbon, if you lose your best car, and your next best car isn't (currently) competitive on the races you need to progress in the game, you have to grind the races you've already beaten. The problem is that the races you've beaten only hand out about 10% of the money you got before, so it takes you a very, very, very long time to get the money to buy a new car, or to upgrade your current ride to the max. Consequently, I ended up quitting on Need For Speed: Carbon (and to a certain extent, Most Wanted) because of this.
Pshades-s
November 11, 2009
Grinding in a racing game sounds like a circle of hell designed solely to punish me. You're telling me that's for real? Now I'm scared. And believe me, I know how tempting it can be to grind. It's frustrating but in many games, it's a viable strategy. I just wish it wasn't so readily available. In my opinion, a good game will balance XP/upgrades/rewards in a timely fashion so that fighting the same scrub enemies over and over again (or entering the same simple races again) never comes up.

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